batterie MOLTO MOLTO vintage ..

[Roger-It]

ho letto alcuni nomi di batterie che hanno fatto da "pionieri" ..

CAMCO, AJAX .. che mi dite di queste 2 marche ?

[lorenzo]

La Camco ? la "gemella" americana della Hayman inglese (il tipo che faceva la Hayman, Mr. Arbiter, importava i fusti e le assemblava in inghilterra); la Camco era anche famosa per i pedali della cassa, infatti la Dw ? nata proprio dalle ceneri della Camco, sviluppando i loro pedali e mantenendo il look dei fusti (i tiranti che usavano Camco e Hayman sono praticamente identici a quelli che usa ora la Dw, da un'intervista ho letto che Lombardi acquist? in pratica gli stampi per quei pedali dalla Camco, nonch? i macchinari per i fusti); il marchio Camco invece lo acquist? la Tama, infatti fino a poco tmpo fa in catalogo c'era i pedali denominati "Camco".

Della Ajax non so niente, ho solo letto che ? stata la prima batteria seria di Gavin Harrison, presumo fosse un marchio inglese...spero che i vintaggiari del forum siano pi? completi di me nelle loro risposte!

[lorenzo]

http://www.vintagedrum.com/category/Dru ... -Drum-Sets qui un link interessante

[whity63]

Allora, la AJAX era una marca inglese che insieme a John Grey era contemporanea alla Premier, entrambe non hanno avuto grande successo mentre la Premier si.
La Camco invece era una marca americana di grande qualit? ma non ? la sorella della Hayman, ? vero che i blocchetti Dw sono quelli della Camco ma non sono uguali agli Hayman, questi ultimi sono anche essi rotondi ma molto pi? grossi e pesanti, si possono ancora trovare in commercio, li montava se non mi sbaglio anche la Dixon nel rullante 4"x14" qualche anno fa, inoltre i fusti Hayman ricordavano molto di pi? i Ludwig perch? erano verniciati internamente di bianco (come i Ludwig anni '60). Quando la Camco chiuse i disegni e i macchinari furono acquistati dalla Tama e da John Good che dette origine alla Dw, infatti i primi pedali Dw sono identici ai Camco cos? come la Tama ha avuto in catalogo per molti anni un pedale cassa marcato Camco.
Se trovate un rullante Camco compratelo perch? suonano bene.

[lorenzo]

Un articolo che mi mand? il tipo della Arbiter quando gli chiesi notizie sulla vecchia Hayman:

As far as we Brits are concerned, Hayman drums fit the bill of
being Classics at least as much as any other instruments
available here during the late sixties and early seventies.
They were the brainchild of Ivor Arbiter who besides being
the first to actually bring GUITARS into Britain in quantity,
was also the first to import Ludwig and Gretsch drums during
the `beat boom'. He it was who in the sixties cleverly
identitified a gap in the market for a LOUD drum set, at a time
when drummers were seldom miked-up outside of the studio. The
original plan was to fit metal liners inside rather ordinary
Carlton drum shells made from beech equipped with traditional
glue rings and indeed some of these were made. Ultimately they
discarded the metal inserts, which were weighty and expensive
and instead chose to thickly spray the drum's insides. Bingo,
loud and extremely cutting drums were here!
Originally the drums were named GEORGE Hayman after one of
the guys in Dallas-Arbiter's Shoeburyness factory (whose
surname, to confuse things further was actually Haymon)
possibly after George Way who made the legendary Camcos.
Because, in further homage to that famous American marque the
set's nutboxes were also made circular, which was well
avant-garde at that time. Anyway, the name was eventually
shortened to the more identifiable HAYMAN.
The drums had a mixture of features which, prior to 1968/9
were only seen on expensive American products. Triple-flange
hoops, which gave a more open sound, were new to British drums
as were non-telescopic spurs, adjustable swivelling shell-mount
cymbal arms, an abundance of tension screws and Remo heads.
Dallas-Arbiter designed their own cumbersome tom holder
too which might well have looked good on the drawing board, but
in reality was something of a nightmare. A flat, curved and
slotted rail was jacked-up a little above the bass shell and to
this was attached the body of the cast tom holder itself which
was fitted with not one, but two ratchets. So by judicious use
of both you could actually have exceedingly limited horizontal
height adjustment. A radial-toothed block was fixed to the tom
itself which mated with a ratchet on the holder to maintain its
playing angle, and very large capstan nuts locked tom to holder
and holder to bass drum rail. These capstans had an annoying
tendency to crush your fingers against the drum and were
neither particularily stable nor did they wear well. But, at
the time it was the best around. Hayman spurs were modelled on
Ludwig-type outrigger designs, but with large, cast circular
holder blocks which matched the nutboxes and also located the
tom legs. Hayman's `lightning-bolt' bass drum tensioners were
the first I'd seen designed ergonomically to ease operation
since they were shaped to accomodate the thumbs better.
The Dallas-Arbiter company made pretty good double-braced,
tripod-based stands and pedals too called SPEEDAMATIC, which
were actually a lot more substantial and sophisticated than the
greater majority of their competition. They're no doubt still
seeing service in drum sets almost a quarter of a century after
their conception. The snare stand was the first in Britain to
use a basket-holding mechanism while the wide,
industrial-fibre-belted bass pedal and double-spurred hi hat
were particularily good with easily adjustable springs. They
were more rugged than just about everything else around,
although the extremely chunky, scalloped cast screws which
arrested all the adjustable bits left something to be desired.
Initially the Hayman snare drums all had 5." deep WOODEN
shells in common with the rest of the drums, but a year or so
later aluminium-shelled versions were produced too which were
loosely modelled along the lines of Ludwig's 400, though in
appearance their shells were much more like Gretsch's. (I'm
told they didn't make too many metal drums so they're evidently
quite collectible.)
Hayman were the first non-American snare drums to have ten
tensioners per head and boasted a simple, but effective
American-style on/off strainer attached to 22 strand snares.
They also had an American style swivelling damper like
Ludwig's.
Size-wise Hayman sets originally came with 22, 20 or 18"
bass drums and 12, 13, 14 and 16" toms; but eventually 24, 26
and even 28" basses appeared. The jazzers of the time went for
the 18 x 12, 12 x 8 and 14 x 14 Recording outfit, while the
rockers went for the larger-sized Showmans.
As I said the secret of the Hayman sound was in the
coating on the inside. It was rather grandly called Vibrasonic
but was simply a thickish, sprayed-on coat of ordinary white
polyurethane paint (originally with an unfortunate tendency to
craze). What it did was harden the surface of the drum and
allow the sound to bounce around inside and give more crack.
Hayman drums didn't sound exactly warm, but, for the mostly
un-amplified drummers of the time, fitted the bill exactly.
They cut through any sort of music at high levels.
The original Haymans were only available in three brushed
metallic finishes: Solid Silver, Gold Ingot and Midnight Blue,
(Regal Red, Matt Black, Natural Pine and see-through Iceberg
were introduced later) the first five of which I was once told
were also used to cover refrigerators!
In August 1969 when they were first introduced a five drum
`Showman' set without stands would have cost #265.32 nowadays
though you'd be rather lucky to pick one up for that price in
good condition.
[NB. There was actually a second generation of Haymans
commissioned by Ivor Arbiter and his son John, which were
launched in 1985 and unashamedly came from Taiwan. Ostensibly
they were the same as their predecessors, although with 9 ply
mahogany shells. They had the same circular nutboxes, identical
paintwork inside to give more or less the same brash sound, but
with a vastly superior 'generic' tom holder and the more regular
solid-coloured plastic coverings. Unfortunately it was just
about a decade after their real heyday and drums, their
amplifying systems, music and even the guys who played them had moved on. So even at #550 complete with stands they weren't successful.

[whity63]

Grande articolo! Infatti le Hayman erano le pi? "Americane" fra le batterie Inglesi.

[Ghor]

il marchio Camco invece lo acquist? la Tama, infatti fino a poco tmpo fa in catalogo c'era i pedali denominati "Camco".

<font color="black">Ecco dove avevo gi? sentito questo nome, oltre a ricordarmi la Capcom dei videogiochi come Street Fighter... </font id="black">

[Roger-It]

grazie x le info ragazzi

eh s? Ghor .. non avr? mai visto qualcosa della Camco, ma della Capcom ho visto un bel p? di robe