Pedale Speed King
Inviato: dom mar 27, 2005 1:22 pmEssendo un appassionato di John Bonham mi sono sempre chiesto come ca**o facesse ad avere un piede cos? veloce. Voi avete mai provato il suo pedale? Com'??
Doimo
Doimo
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Inviato: dom mar 27, 2005 1:22 pmInviato: dom mar 27, 2005 1:49 pmeh ma mi sa che per capire bene bisognerebbe provare il piede...
Inviato: dom mar 27, 2005 2:59 pmindipendentemente dal pedale, era il suo piede a camminare.....
Inviato: dom mar 27, 2005 3:31 pmse qualcuno vuole sentire un piede a dir poco stratosferico, e il pedale non c'entra assolutamente niente, procuratevi Doreen di F.Zappa tratta da You are what u is. Alla batteria c'? Logeman, sconosciuto quanto fenomenale batterista, e che ci crediate o no, quello che sentite ? un pedale singolo (uno speed king appunto), anche perch? all'epoca, nel 1981, il doppio ancora non esisteva. Ascoltare per (non) credere...
Inviato: dom mar 27, 2005 10:45 pmNessuna obiezione sul suo piede, ma un pedale di quel tipo pu? essere paragonato ad uno semplice che troviamo in giro ora? La sua risposta com'?? La meccanica ? buona?
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 12:41 amDoimo ha scritto:Nessuna obiezione sul suo piede, ma un pedale di quel tipo pu? essere paragonato ad uno semplice che troviamo in giro ora? La sua risposta com'?? La meccanica ? buona?
io ne ho due di speed king uno originale del 60 ed uno comprato dopo; la trazione ? a cinghia di metallo, ci devi suonare di pi? rispetto ai pedali "moderni" ma quando ci hai fatto il piede nn lo molli pi?. se gi? sei veloce col piede lui nn fa altro che aiutarti ad andare pi? spedito. oltre il grande bonham anche ian paice lo usava. i loro piedi erano grandiosi, e lo speed king li aiutava un po'. paragonarlo ai moderni? nn lo so io ho anche il doppio iron cobra e sono due concezioni diverse, dipende da come sei abituato.
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 9:30 amBeh, dubito che un prodotto di 40 anni f? possa essere meglio di uno odierno...
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 9:39 amsemi OT... ti interessa un bel Speed King singolo?
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 10:22 amLCF drummer ha scritto:Beh, dubito che un prodotto di 40 anni f? possa essere meglio di uno odierno...
Gi?, infatti gli Axis ed il nuovo Flying Dragon della Yamaha usano lo stesso sistema di trazione diretta, dopo anni di catene pi? o meno doppie.....
Nonostante questo lo Yamaha (che ho provato) ? pi? pesante del mio Speedking. Purtroppo quello che ? lento ? il mio piede
.
Bye!!!
M.
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 8:50 pmSignoriDrums ha scritto:LCF drummer ha scritto:
Beh, dubito che un prodotto di 40 anni f? possa essere meglio di uno odierno...
Gi?, infatti gli Axis ed il nuovo Flying Dragon della Yamaha usano lo stesso sistema di trazione diretta, dopo anni di catene pi? o meno doppie.....
Nonostante questo lo Yamaha (che ho provato) ? pi? pesante del mio Speedking. Purtroppo quello che ? lento ? il mio piede
Bye!!!
M.
mi hai tolto il post dalla tastiera. per lo speed provare per credere
Inviato: lun mar 28, 2005 11:34 pmsicuramente materiali e concezione di costruzione sono molto importanti...io personalmente credo che bonzo avrebbe potuto usare anche un tufo per colpire la pelle della cassa e l'avrebbe fatto estremamente veloce (come sua caratteristica)....altres? prendiamo me per esempio
potrei usare anche un pedale azionato da nanotecnologia cino-giapponese...ma resterei comunque una chiavica...spero che il concetto sia chiaro
hola
potrei usare anche un pedale azionato da nanotecnologia cino-giapponese...ma resterei comunque una chiavica...spero che il concetto sia chiaro
hola
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 8:49 amdevo ammettere che lo speed king AIUTA molto, ma ovviamente c'? il piede di Bonham che era "pi? veloce di un coniglio" (come disse il buon Hendrix..)
io ho lo speed king e non lo cambier? mai e poi mai ..
io ho lo speed king e non lo cambier? mai e poi mai ..
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 11:04 amDRUM! Vol.6 #5 August '97
<font size="4">The Speed King Pedal </font id="size4">
It seems that every decade or so, a company declares that it has created a bass drum pedal that revolutionizes the function, quickness and balance of all previously slow and cumbersome predecessors. In the '90s, the Axis pedal has earned the distinction of being state-of-theart. Yet many companies such as Drum Workshop and Tama have held their own in the down-and-dirty winner-take-all pedal market.
The lineage of popular bass drum pedals almost reads like the "begat" section in the Bible. (Imagine Moses playing double-bass Tama Cobras!) So let's travel back in time to the very first pedal, patented in 1885 by George R. Olney. Before this, at least three drummers had to be hired for most gigs: one for the snare drum, another to play cymbals and a third to strike the bass drum. Olneys invention was a wooden overhead swing pedal mounted on the top hoop of the bass drum. A rawhide thong attached the foot pedal to the beater ball.
It was the first evolutionary step in the right direction, but it wasn?t very useful. Other bass pedal designs followed into the 20th century, including the Frisco heel pedal and a Leedy overhead model that was mechanically complicated and not very efficient. Then a drummer by the name of William F. Ludwig recognized the need for a practical bass pedal that could play ragtime tempos, and he began hand-carving prototypes out of wood. In 1909, one of his prototypes turned into a production model, and an empire was born. He created a simple, functional, cast metal pedal that worked well enough for the time and could be disassembled and placed in your coat pocket.
Approximately 30 years later, due to a number of setbacks, Mr. Ludwig was faced with the prospect of having to start his company again. One of the first new products that he marketed was the Twin Spring Speed King. This pedal was slightly revamped in 1950 to become virtually the same Speed King pedal that continues to be sold by Ludwig today. It has a
sealed double-post stand that houses the compression springs and the ball bearings in which the rocker shaft that holds the beater rotates. It's an efficient design that has worked for 60 years, but it is not without some inherent problems. The tension on the springs in the shafts is adjustable only by a screw at the bottom of the upright posts, and sometimes it just doesn't work very well. The other major problem is that air has a tendency to leak into the sealed compartment where the ball bearings and lubricant are located. When this happens, the lubricant can dry out and the pedal either begins to squeak or becomes gunked up to the point where the pedal simply doesn't work. Still, I remember salvaging my restaurant gig one evening by lubricating my Speed King Pedal with salad oil.
Camco originally produced only drum hardware in the 1950s and '60s, including bass drum pedals. (It wasn't until '61 that the company began to manufacture drums, but that's another story.) Camco's pedal design was unique. Though it was based on a spring design, which already was common in its day, it utilized a kidney-shaped camshaft that increased the velocity of the beater shafts throw, and that was a revolutionary idea.
Throughout the '50s and '60s, Camco was subcontracted by the Gretsch Drum Company to produce the Gretsch Floating Action Pedal, which coupled all of the Camco pedal features with a strap drive. These pedals were so successful that when Camco gained control of the George Way Drum Company in '61 and renamed it Camco, the identical floating action pedals continued to be made with the Camco stamp on the footboard.
Both the Gretsch and Camco pedals are very popular collector's items today. When Camco was sold off to DW and Tama in '79, both companies continued to use the technology in its pedals that was pioneered by the original company. Today Tama has profoundly changed their pedal designs, but in the vast array of DW pedals, one can still see vestiges of the original Camco design, even though the overall construction has been drastically improved.
Also - primarily in the '50s - most drum companies that developed a cocktail kit had to devise a pedal that would be able to beat the bottom head of an upright drum with an upstroke rather than the traditional side-stroke. Some companies did this by merely bending the shaft of the pedal, while others removed the pedal's rocker arm and reversed it.
In the '70s and '80s, the Caroline pedal was manufactured in France by the Asba company. These pedals achieved a cult status after it was discovered that such diverse players as J.R. Robinson and Mitch Mitchell were using and endorsed them. Known for their smooth action, the pecws are no longer in production but are still sought after by some collectors.
During the '60s (some say the '50s, but I can't find evidence of that), the Ghost pedal was developed in the Midwest by a small manufacturer. It had a bulky design that featured two 3"-diameter circular housings that each contained an inner coiled spring. When the footboard was depressed, the spring contracted, throwing the crossbar with the beater shaft into the contact point of the head. The Ghost pedal also achieved cult status for a while, especially among doublebass players such as Carmine Appice. (I remember seeing him using a set at a Cactus show.) Eventually, the Ludwig company purchased the manufacturing and marketing rights of the Ghost pedal and sold it successfully for several years.
Compared with other technologies, the evolution of the bass drum pedal is a rather humble tale. Nonetheless, it's interesting that these various designs and improvements, false starts and epiphanies, agonized over by a long line of inventors whose histories span decades, all were dedicated to finding an answer to the same question: What's the best way to hit a bass drumhead with a beater?
<font size="4">The Speed King Pedal </font id="size4">
It seems that every decade or so, a company declares that it has created a bass drum pedal that revolutionizes the function, quickness and balance of all previously slow and cumbersome predecessors. In the '90s, the Axis pedal has earned the distinction of being state-of-theart. Yet many companies such as Drum Workshop and Tama have held their own in the down-and-dirty winner-take-all pedal market.
The lineage of popular bass drum pedals almost reads like the "begat" section in the Bible. (Imagine Moses playing double-bass Tama Cobras!) So let's travel back in time to the very first pedal, patented in 1885 by George R. Olney. Before this, at least three drummers had to be hired for most gigs: one for the snare drum, another to play cymbals and a third to strike the bass drum. Olneys invention was a wooden overhead swing pedal mounted on the top hoop of the bass drum. A rawhide thong attached the foot pedal to the beater ball.
It was the first evolutionary step in the right direction, but it wasn?t very useful. Other bass pedal designs followed into the 20th century, including the Frisco heel pedal and a Leedy overhead model that was mechanically complicated and not very efficient. Then a drummer by the name of William F. Ludwig recognized the need for a practical bass pedal that could play ragtime tempos, and he began hand-carving prototypes out of wood. In 1909, one of his prototypes turned into a production model, and an empire was born. He created a simple, functional, cast metal pedal that worked well enough for the time and could be disassembled and placed in your coat pocket.
Approximately 30 years later, due to a number of setbacks, Mr. Ludwig was faced with the prospect of having to start his company again. One of the first new products that he marketed was the Twin Spring Speed King. This pedal was slightly revamped in 1950 to become virtually the same Speed King pedal that continues to be sold by Ludwig today. It has a
sealed double-post stand that houses the compression springs and the ball bearings in which the rocker shaft that holds the beater rotates. It's an efficient design that has worked for 60 years, but it is not without some inherent problems. The tension on the springs in the shafts is adjustable only by a screw at the bottom of the upright posts, and sometimes it just doesn't work very well. The other major problem is that air has a tendency to leak into the sealed compartment where the ball bearings and lubricant are located. When this happens, the lubricant can dry out and the pedal either begins to squeak or becomes gunked up to the point where the pedal simply doesn't work. Still, I remember salvaging my restaurant gig one evening by lubricating my Speed King Pedal with salad oil.
Camco originally produced only drum hardware in the 1950s and '60s, including bass drum pedals. (It wasn't until '61 that the company began to manufacture drums, but that's another story.) Camco's pedal design was unique. Though it was based on a spring design, which already was common in its day, it utilized a kidney-shaped camshaft that increased the velocity of the beater shafts throw, and that was a revolutionary idea.
Throughout the '50s and '60s, Camco was subcontracted by the Gretsch Drum Company to produce the Gretsch Floating Action Pedal, which coupled all of the Camco pedal features with a strap drive. These pedals were so successful that when Camco gained control of the George Way Drum Company in '61 and renamed it Camco, the identical floating action pedals continued to be made with the Camco stamp on the footboard.
Both the Gretsch and Camco pedals are very popular collector's items today. When Camco was sold off to DW and Tama in '79, both companies continued to use the technology in its pedals that was pioneered by the original company. Today Tama has profoundly changed their pedal designs, but in the vast array of DW pedals, one can still see vestiges of the original Camco design, even though the overall construction has been drastically improved.
Also - primarily in the '50s - most drum companies that developed a cocktail kit had to devise a pedal that would be able to beat the bottom head of an upright drum with an upstroke rather than the traditional side-stroke. Some companies did this by merely bending the shaft of the pedal, while others removed the pedal's rocker arm and reversed it.
In the '70s and '80s, the Caroline pedal was manufactured in France by the Asba company. These pedals achieved a cult status after it was discovered that such diverse players as J.R. Robinson and Mitch Mitchell were using and endorsed them. Known for their smooth action, the pecws are no longer in production but are still sought after by some collectors.
During the '60s (some say the '50s, but I can't find evidence of that), the Ghost pedal was developed in the Midwest by a small manufacturer. It had a bulky design that featured two 3"-diameter circular housings that each contained an inner coiled spring. When the footboard was depressed, the spring contracted, throwing the crossbar with the beater shaft into the contact point of the head. The Ghost pedal also achieved cult status for a while, especially among doublebass players such as Carmine Appice. (I remember seeing him using a set at a Cactus show.) Eventually, the Ludwig company purchased the manufacturing and marketing rights of the Ghost pedal and sold it successfully for several years.
Compared with other technologies, the evolution of the bass drum pedal is a rather humble tale. Nonetheless, it's interesting that these various designs and improvements, false starts and epiphanies, agonized over by a long line of inventors whose histories span decades, all were dedicated to finding an answer to the same question: What's the best way to hit a bass drumhead with a beater?
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 11:48 am...perdonatemi...ma ne gli anni 60' costruivano i pedali a trazione diretta tipo qlla Yamaha Direct Drive? 
ps: a qnto lo vendi Ytsedrummer?
ps: a qnto lo vendi Ytsedrummer?
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 12:17 pmSe lo usava pure Ian Paice allora mi sa che lo comprer?! Grazie ragazzi per il vostro aiuto e delucidazione!
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 12:18 pmnon sapevo Appice usasse il Ghost .. pedale veloce ma MOLTO pericoloso (so che a un tipo una volta ? saltata una molla sull'occhio, mentre stava regolando la tensione !!)
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 1:48 pmbanko ha scritto:se qualcuno vuole sentire un piede a dir poco stratosferico, e il pedale non c'entra assolutamente niente, procuratevi Doreen di F.Zappa tratta da You are what u is. Alla batteria c'? Logeman, sconosciuto quanto fenomenale batterista, e che ci crediate o no, quello che sentite ? un pedale singolo (uno speed king appunto), anche perch? all'epoca, nel 1981, il doppio ancora non esisteva. Ascoltare per (non) credere...
Ho ascoltato il pezzo banko...stento a credere ke sia un singolo, vorrei delle conferme!
Cmqe il suono ? parekkio strano, sembra quasi triggerata qlla cassa...mah!
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 3:23 pmProvate a sentire cosa fa Colin Baley nei CD allegati al metodo "Bass Drum COntrol"...
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 8:19 pmuso da 15 anni lo Speed King: capisco bene chi dice che "una volta che lo provi non lo cambi pi?". Il pedale ? di una semplicit? disarmante, leggero, sensibile, (un po' rumoroso sulla pedana, ogni tanto ci vuole un po' di lubrificazione...), in breve un gioiello!
Non tiratemi fuori i discorsi "...? vecchio come concezione..." oppure "...da allora la tecnica si ? evoluta...": la genialit? di chi lo ha inventato molti anni fa deriva comunque da continue modifiche rispetto al modello iniziale che risale agli anni trenta; quest'ultimo ? stato il <u>prototipo</u> del pedale da grancassa moderno. Ho letto che Phil Collins affermava di avere usato solo gli Speed King: si rompono spesso (per uno che ci sta sopra tutto il giorno tutti i giorni dell'anno pu? succedere) ma il giorno dopo ne compra uno nuovo.
Purtroppo per noi pestatori mortali devo affermare che un grande batterista pu? fare un assolo strepitoso di venti minuti anche su un set scassato da cantina (ho visto fare questo a Marvin Boogaloo Smith alla mia scuola di batteria Saint Louis ed ? stata oltre a tutto una grande lezione di umilt? per noi studenti che disquisivamo da saputelli su marche, fusti, cordiere, etc.).
p.s.: E' comunque sempre piacevole leggere da chi usa altre marche, non si impara mai abbastanza.
Non tiratemi fuori i discorsi "...? vecchio come concezione..." oppure "...da allora la tecnica si ? evoluta...": la genialit? di chi lo ha inventato molti anni fa deriva comunque da continue modifiche rispetto al modello iniziale che risale agli anni trenta; quest'ultimo ? stato il <u>prototipo</u> del pedale da grancassa moderno. Ho letto che Phil Collins affermava di avere usato solo gli Speed King: si rompono spesso (per uno che ci sta sopra tutto il giorno tutti i giorni dell'anno pu? succedere) ma il giorno dopo ne compra uno nuovo.
Purtroppo per noi pestatori mortali devo affermare che un grande batterista pu? fare un assolo strepitoso di venti minuti anche su un set scassato da cantina (ho visto fare questo a Marvin Boogaloo Smith alla mia scuola di batteria Saint Louis ed ? stata oltre a tutto una grande lezione di umilt? per noi studenti che disquisivamo da saputelli su marche, fusti, cordiere, etc.).
p.s.: E' comunque sempre piacevole leggere da chi usa altre marche, non si impara mai abbastanza.
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 10:09 pmma quelli moderni sono come quelli vecchi???
come feeling intendo!
come feeling intendo!
Inviato: mar mar 29, 2005 10:33 pmNon credotommylee85 ha scritto:ma quelli moderni sono come quelli vecchi???
come feeling intendo!
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 3:49 amLCF drummer ha scritto:Beh, dubito che un prodotto di 40 anni f? possa essere meglio di uno odierno...
...non sarebbe il primo n? l'ultimo...
P.S. lo usava anche phil collins,e lo usa tutt'ora!!!
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 8:14 amBravo Clannard, sono completamente d'accordo.
Per rispondere a Tommy, invece: si, lo fanno ancora, si chiama L201, ma molti dicono che la qualit? generale ? inferiore a quella del vecchio. Costa pure un bel po'...
Per rispondere a Tommy, invece: si, lo fanno ancora, si chiama L201, ma molti dicono che la qualit? generale ? inferiore a quella del vecchio. Costa pure un bel po'...
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:08 amPippo ha scritto:Bravo Clannard, sono completamente d'accordo.
Per rispondere a Tommy, invece: si, lo fanno ancora, si chiama L201, ma molti dicono che la qualit? generale ? inferiore a quella del vecchio. Costa pure un bel po'...
bh?, a qsto punto postate pure la foto del vekkio Speed King...sono curiosissimo
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:17 amPortnoytom ha scritto:
bh?, a qsto punto postate pure la foto del vekkio Speed King...sono curiosissimo
E' assolutamente identico a quello nuovo, solo che ha l'aria usata.....
Non ? vero, le parti che nella foto sono nere, nel pedale "classico" non sono verniciate, ma finite con una semplice pallinatura fine.
La piastra inoltre ? una lamiera ripiegata e non verniciata.
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:22 amio ho lo speed king NUOVO ed ? IDENTICO a quello vecchio (ne ho provato uno degli anni '60..)
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:26 amEcco l'originale, guardate che meraviglia:
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:30 amMa ? un poggia tacco quello a fine pedana? Non ? scomodo? E' utile?
Gran bell'oggetto!
Gran bell'oggetto!
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:33 amsi pu? regolare .. diciamo che nella foto sta messo un p? a caXXo ^_^
Inviato: mer mar 30, 2005 10:36 am
Anche in quello nuovo quindi, giusto?
Che roba!